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elfis
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 74
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 Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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I always find it ironic when I end up defending someone whom I know has some serious flaws but ...
Alex Jones is a flawed human whose personality rules his approach to parapolitical research and activism.
When I was first introduced to his body of work (and to Bill Hicks' work at the same time via the same friend of mine) I recall saying out loud, "yeah, I've heard all this right-wing conservative conspiracy theory before. I wonder who his handler is ..." But then I noticed that he was coming to a lot of the same conclusions as my then favorite leftist liberal conspiracy theorist, John Judge. And the more I researched his claims the more I recognized him as a hard working parapolitical researcher.
His earliest efforts at field work, stalking and chronicling the rise of paramilitary police exercises, coupled with his anti-thumbprint drivers license activism, earned him my respect. Yes his general demeanor is abrasive. Yes his general religious conservatism can be distracting. But I stuck with him and became a big fan, watching his every ACTV community television live show, and later, post 911, became a daily listener and visitor to his website(s).
I've watched his development from amateur community TV talking head to full-blown radioshow host and political movement leader.
Here are some of my own observations about him and his style and efforts:
- He has a near-photographic memory - or at least he used to ... he doesn't mention this as much as he used to but there was a time when I was constantly blown away by his ability to rattle of chapter and verse for any and every MSM news article he needed to cite in a discussion. Just as his physique has grown flabby (he used to have the body of a bodybuilder) this faculty of his seems to be rusting.
- Perhaps related to the above ... a close friend of mine who spent a LOT of time with Alex and his crew during the reconstruction of the Branch Davidians church once described Alex as a borderline autistic or idiot savaant. Alex would undoubtedly score high on a "Remote Association" psychology test.
- Another close friend of mine who was also around during the Davidien church reconstruction has confirmed to me what has been, to me, the one significant bit of dirt on Alex. That is his violation of trust / betrayal regarding the Gray family during their stand-off. My friend was called on the phone by Alex who was sobbing, uncontrollably distraught over what he had done.
http://www.christianmediaresearch.com/jones.html
- Yet another close friend of mine is friends of Alex's DVD supplier. Apparently, Jones is reordering about 10,000 DVDs a month. So while he constantly encourages folks to copy and distribute his films, he is still selling and distributing a heck of a lot of movies these days.
- If you hunt around on the net long enough you will find the infamous unauthorized Alex Jones tapes that feature a multitude of stalkers following him and videotaping him and generally giving him a helluva time. One of these tapes I've seen features a guy who was, for a time, one of Alex's gophers. This guy would harass him at every step of his daily life. Another tape I have not seen but which friends of mine have watched features the famous ACTV parking lot fight in which one or more of these stalkers confront him and pick a fight.
- I had dinner with him once after yet another close friend of mine and I got Alex to do an interview on UT's KVRX radiostation. After the radio interview we went to a nearby restaurant to hang out and chat. The impression I got was that he is just so obsessed by these parapolitical subjects that it's incredibly hard for him to just have a "normal" conversation and "traditional" informal interactions with folks. At the time I knew that he was good friends with Kevin Booth of Sacred Cow Productions and that Booth was the best friend of Bill Hicks. I'd noticed that Alex sometimes did Hicksian styled comedy during his ACTV show and occassionally during his radioshow and I'd even thought that they kind of looked alike ... which led me to formulate 2 paranormal and parapolitical conspiracy theories as to the death of Bill Hicks and the rise of Alex Jones. Anyway, I asked Alex if he'd ever met Hicks and he said, "yes at least once." You can go to Kevin Booth's Sacred Cow website and see lots of great Alex outtakes including him drunk with Joe Rogan at local comedy clubs.
I usually tell folks that you have to listen / watch Alex with your "Alex Goggles" firmly in place. I've often estimated that he over-inflates certain types of figures / statistics by a factor of about 10 or even 20 at times. This is the flip-side of his apparent eidetic memory and perhaps evidence of the low-grade autism angle - where instead of getting the numbers and details perfectly accurately like he often does, he over-estimates by a discernable amount nearly every time. Of course, I have no specific examples of this but ...
Bottom line ... despite the criticisms of him being a fear mongerer, I've seen him wake-up more liberals and more conservatives to the "false left/right paradigm" than anyone else in the supposed 911 movement. And while even I get sick of the state of hysteria that I am put in when listening to him, I think he is doing a helluva lotta good. But I am fully aware that some people see him or hear his name and immediately dismiss whatever it is you are trying to point them towards. But people are that way about EVERYTHING, so ... fuck em!
Then again, I like Fintan Dunne too, and plenty of my parapolitical 911 friends think he's disinfo because of his CIA Fakes List. Go figure.
SMiles |
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elfis
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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Rumpl4skn
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
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Location: 36� 3'N x 86�40'W
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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I still say just about everyone involved with the 9/11 movement has some sort of obvious, deliberately built-in anomaly in their belief shtick.
I like John Judge too, except for one little statement he's made, regarding Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon. I'm not even going to relate it to my own belief that it was not Flight 77 that hit the building, but here's what Judge had to say. He claims a "dear friend" of his was a flight attendant who "flew on that very airplane many times." He says she was taken to the Pentagon the day after the crash, and "she recognized the parts of the plane she knew so well."
Uh-huh. From some strewn about chunks of aluminum and steel, she was able to discern that this was the plane she had worked on.
Now that is just trying too hard to make a point, and an all-too obvious bit of clumsiness. All he had to say was, "She recognized that it was indeed a Boeing" or "it really looked like a 767." Something a little less strained in the believability department. But recognizing a particular serial numbered plane? In my world, John Judge's job was to raise eyebrows about everything but Flight 77, and then firmly put that issue to rest amongst his 'clientele.' As long as each 'branch' of the movement has a firm belief that is widely disbelieved elsewhere, we have successful 'conspiracy data gridlock', and no single arm of the resistance becomes the accepted one.
And this is the crap that everyone seems to provide - one ridiculous, easily refutable, endlessly debatable tidbit of deliberately bizarre information.
_________________
"No matter what happens, ever... there's ALWAYS at least one reason. And the top reason is ALWAYS money."
Last edited by Rumpl4skn on Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hocus Locus
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Lost in anamnesis, cannot forget my way out
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "flew on that very airplane many times." He says she was taken to the Pentagon the day after the crash, and "she recognized the parts of the plane she knew so well." |
Sounded strange as you tell it (don't have experience with Judge) but there are people who recall timespan and details in different ways, and when they tell stories they miss cues that would cause others (who are thinking this is recall of a particular situation) to say "huh?"
For example, on 9/11 she didn't know which plane, but through professional buzz later heard the tail number, in the industry planes have personalities and quirks (maybe even graffiti), and they must note it on reports, so it is possible tail number would be of interest. But then, being timespan-impaired, she merged details discovered later with what she had experienced before (sight of wreckage) without realizing she should drop in a qualifier, which can be a separate step like 'which I later learned was'... Judge also failed to note the herring in the telling, or perhaps she told him a serial story and it was Judge who dropped the qualifier. Am I making sense?
Something 9/11 folk cannot forget is, we are scrutinizing events (and people's recollection of them) that occured within a short time period. Less than two hours. Now in any given period of time people make simple mistakes, misspell words and such, use a wrong word here and there (which you do not remember them doing, because at the time you 'knew what they meant' and remember that instead). Likewise with the visual, and time sense. In trauma situations everything is surreal; in fact, it is probably only on 9/12 that most people, in recall, truly percieved the whole of what had happened, such as they could. And we, sitting at our consoles, are sifting through masses of testimony, fact and claimed-fact -- so the danger is, since we may have a general sense of paranoia and urgency (for many it is beyond quiet desperation) -- we are less likely to recognize and factor human folibles mixed into the stream, more likely to stop and say hey! That's funny. Which can lead down truly blind alleys, since the hardest black cat to find is the one that isn't there.
And elfis Thank you for that context-rich snapshot.
Eidetic memory is fascinating -- a wide bandwdth store and retrieve channel developed at some point in the process of memory. I have 'eidetic' ears: used to be able to auralize music in the head, stereo image intact in real-time, as I think many people do; vivid in youth it has lost some clarity both in detail and strict adherence to timeline, but it's still there. Recalled music more-or-less on pitch, but note that I have never had musicians' 'perfect pitch', though with concentration I can hold it for a few minutes at a time.
For some it is photographic, which implies behind the opic nerve but in front of what is 'seen', output feeds into the pipe, the 'frame'. But for others, a wide range of 'savants' -- and everyone to some extent I think -- the memory pipe is fed by (and recalled to) an associative point of the cognitive process later in the game.
Some photographic savants need to revisualize word on the page, parallelize to read them (there is a pause); others can apparently recall and requote text (but must pause to consider the gist of what they have said, again a fork and parallelizing step). Some must do this in short spurts, or despite having recalled completely, their own reasoning facility no longer has access to all they have recalled. Having 'forgotten' what they just said.
On the level of metaphor and meme it gets rich in possibility, and pervasive in the species. I'll recall someone once sung a song about bananas pretending to be cellphones, you'll recall seeing a strange tie. In debate the paraphrase is 'all', most of our ever-spoken output are pieces of the meme-puzzle of perception and intuition of others reinvented and recast in the moment, projected in our own words; with a little spice of artifact that is our uniqueness as individuals, but even more amazing, leading ourselfves and others to conclusions that are not in the experience matrix.
Relatives, absolutes, magnitudes and figures are a special case here. We grok important numbers, we may only have a handle on magnitude ('four thousand something') or, in moments where scientists have placed a mental finger on some unfolding mystery, we abmiguify value and swing our mind around relation ('whoa! at this point the energy should be virtually zero, but it's not! Hmm.').
Then there are the complex systems that are people, as other people read and recall them. ("He would be one to say something like that."). To me this is the most amazing of all -- granted, at any one time we are accessing general psychological leanings to form conclusions, but when you think of how much detail about people we need to not recall, or generalize before it is committed to memory, things get eerie. Or maybe, just as likely, I like to feel eerie and am just indulging myself.
And what is known as sleep and sleep-dreams, the states in which the relevant is replayed, conscious avatar diminished so as to prevent it from breaking this cycle in boredom, during which the fragile chemical changes that have occured that day, rather the important ones, are played over and over, to deepen the bonds of relevance and persistence, while the irrelevant and distantly obsolete is overrun. The face of a newely-met love interest, absurd scenarios imagined as a consequence of failing to recall a string of numbers (perhaps related to the other). When we wake the face and the number is clear, a strange hat glimpsed in a elevator, gone.
Alex Jones' obfuscation of numbers -- aside from intellectual dishonesty of course -- may be his eidetic pipeline shifting in use and purpose. If these wide pipes were easy to grow, and I think they are especially rare to develop in adults, such specific feats of recall would be more prevalent. Maybe I just fail to notice them, or cannot recall any? If there was a time in his life when sensual snapshot or word data was important, one would note 'classic' eidetic prowess. Over time his mindset has had to expand to include motives, relationships between party and organization and country... the invention of cospiracies both imagined and back-traced to fit observation, an endeavor that must approach as complex a level as to grok people, might be what he's retooling for.
That, like everything else we do or imagine -- can lead to madness. Hope it works out.
Super-profundo on the early eve of your day!
___
C: But the trick is, you've got to realize that you're dreaming in the first place. You got to be able to recognize it. Ask yourself, "Hey man, is this a dream?" See, most people never ask themselves that, when they're awake, or especially when they're asleep. Seems like everyone's sleep-walking through their waking state or wake-walking through their dreams. Either way they're not going to get much out of it.
W: The thing that snapped me into realizing that I was dreaming was my digital clock. I couldn't really read it. It's like the circuitry was all screwed up, or something.
C: Yeah that's real common. And small print in materials is pretty tough too. Very unstable. Another good tip-off is trying to adjust light levels. You can't really do that. You see a light switch nearby, flip it on and off and see if it works. That's one of the things you can't do in lucid dreams. What the hell, I can fly around, have an interesting conversation with Albert Schweitzer, explore all these new dimensions of reality. Not to mention, have any kind of sex I want, which is way cool. So I can't adjust light levels, so what?
W: But that's one of the things you can do to test if you're dreaming or not, right?
C: Yeah like I said, you can totally train yourself to recognize it. I mean, just hit a light switch every now and then. If the lights are on, and you can't turn them off, then most likely you're dreaming. And then you can get down to business, and believe me -- it's unlimited.
~Dialogue: John Christensen and Wiley Wiggins, from the movie "Waking Life" |
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elfis
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Rumpl4skn wrote: | I still say just about everyone involved with the 9/11 movement has some sort of obvious, deliberately built-in anomaly in their belief shtick.
I like John Judge too, except for one little statement he's made, regarding Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon. I'm not even going to relate it to my own belief that it was not Flight 77 that hit the building, but here's what Judge had to say. He claims a "dear friend" of his was a flight attendant who "flew on that very airplane many times." He says she was taken to the Pentagon the day after the crash, and "she recognized the parts of the plane she knew so well."
Uh-huh. From some strewn about chunks of aluminum and steel, she was able to discern that this was the plane she had worked on.
Now that is just trying too hard to make a point, and an all-too obvious bit of clumsiness. All he had to say was, "She recognized that it was indeed a Boeing" or "it really looked like a 767." Something a little less strained in the believability department. But recognizing a particular serial numbered plane? In my world, John Judge's job was to raise eyebrows about everything but Flight 77, and then firmly put that issue to rest amongst his 'clientele.' As long as each 'branch' of the movement has a firm belief that is widely disbelieved elsewhere, we have successful 'conspiracy data gridlock', and no single arm of the resistance becomes the accepted one.
And this is the crap that everyone seems to provide - one ridiculous, easily refutable, endlessly debatable tidbit of deliberately bizarre information. |
Rumpl4skn, I am well familiar with this criticism of Judge but let's "name" the witness and point out the parapolitical synchronicity involved here ... the alleged witness is parapolitical researcher "T Carter" whom I videotaped in 2002 at the Dallas COPA event.
We have someone in the conspiracy community who has done hands-on research investigating JFK, RFK, MLK and she happens to be a stewardess on one of the most anomalous flights in US history?
The commentary and links below show photographs of this parapolitical researcher / 911 stewardess. I've had online for years the audio of that video of her relating her story. Judge later went on to write a more detailed travelogue of his fellow researchers alleged Pentagon experience. Her story works in the same way as actor James Woods' does, only Woods was rewarded with the role of Mayor Rudolph Gulliani in the made for TV movie of that 911 player's life.
Here is the link to the gallery of images and audio of that conference:
http://www.parapolitics.info/copa/copa2002gallery/
http://www.parapolitics.info/media/2002COPA911/
http://www.parapolitics.info/media/2002COPAjfk/
http://www.parapolitics.info/media/2002COPAmlk/
http://www.parapolitics.info/media/2002COPAmisc/
Researcher T Carter gives an update on the MLK assassination case.
http://www.parapolitics.info/copa/copa2002gallery/Tcarter3.jpg.html
T is a dedicated researcher who has worked on both JFK and MLK cases with Judge Joe Brown, among others. Her first report was on her efforts to weigh the infamous Minox camera held in the National Archives. The effort to weigh the alleged CIA spy cam "found" at Oswald's residence is to discover what if anything may have been used to seal and/or fill the interior portion of the Bic lighter sized camera. The camera has been impenatrable. As it turns out the camera does weigh more than the 200 or more weighed by T. Carter. On the second night of the conference gave an update on the Martin Luther King case related to securing of the rifle everyone believes is NOT the real assassination weapon and how Denny's (!) has taken up sponsorship of the MLK Assassination museum.
Researcher T Carter explains her relation to flight 93 which slammed into the Pentagon September 11th, 2001.
http://www.parapolitics.info/copa/copa2002gallery/Tcarter1.jpg.html
http://www.parapolitics.info/copa/copa2002gallery/Tcarter2.jpg.html
The final day of the event, Ms. Carter related her connections to the September 11th case. She is a flight attendant and one of her usual routes was Flight 77 - the plane that went into the Pentagon.
T Carter was a regular stewardess on that flight and had witnessed one of the alleged hijackers doing a pre-911 test flight.
She said that she believes the plane actually went into the Pentagon, contrary to a popular internet theory. Her friends bodies and aircraft wreckage were recovered from the scene of the impact which she visited. Other revelations included privy knowledge of her flight attendant friends personal cell phone call to her mother. During the call the flight attendant friend to the mother that there were SIX hijackers - contradicting the number claimed by the Government "authorities." She implored the audience to research September 11th for this and other "discrepancies."
Listen to her ...
September 11th 2001 panel lecture
http://www.parapolitics.info/media/2002COPA911/TCarter911.mp3
JFK panel lecture (minox camera update)
http://www.parapolitics.info/media/2002COPAjfk/TCarterJFK.mp3
MLK panel lecture (rifle/museum update)
http://www.parapolitics.info/media/2002COPAmlk/TCarterMLK.mp3
http://www.parapolitics.info/copa/copa2002gallery/index.html |
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elfis
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Hocus Locus"] | Quote: | | "And elfis Thank you for that context-rich snapshot. |
You are welcome Hocus Locus. Thanks for your significant comments.
I am also a Dickhead ... fan of Philip K. Dick and of WAKING LIFE.
SMiles |
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Rumpl4skn
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 2849
Location: 36� 3'N x 86�40'W
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:21 am Post subject: |
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I didn't check the links, but doesn't everything in that post confirm my suspicions about this woman?
She confirms the presence of real al-Qaeda hijackers? She "saw passenger bodies" at the Pentagon?
Yet, she's a top JFK and MLK researcher...... this is precisely what I said. People such as her are brought forth as firmly on board the entire conspiracy community, to establish their cred, then they disprove ONE key issue.
So, if she's a mole, her job is to trash the Pentagon scenario. Now, you get similar people to do the same with every other major issue.... and no one 'runs the table'. And every major ingrediant of the 9/11 conspiracy has one major, credible debunker built right in.
_________________
"No matter what happens, ever... there's ALWAYS at least one reason. And the top reason is ALWAYS money." |
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elfis
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Rumpl4skn wrote: |
I didn't check the links, but doesn't everything in that post confirm my suspicions about this woman?
She confirms the presence of real al-Qaeda hijackers? She "saw passenger bodies" at the Pentagon?
Yet, she's a top JFK and MLK researcher...... this is precisely what I said. People such as her are brought forth as firmly on board the entire conspiracy community, to establish their cred, then they disprove ONE key issue.
So, if she's a mole, her job is to trash the Pentagon scenario. Now, you get similar people to do the same with every other major issue.... and no one 'runs the table'. And every major ingrediant of the 9/11 conspiracy has one major, credible debunker built right in. |
Yes Rumpl4skn, the point is made. I've just had so many people refer to "Judge's alleged Pentagon witness" as if she weren't real that I always feel compelled to point out that she is somewhat "on the record" so to speak.
But yes, your point is an important one. But again, how many of these alleged "CIA Fakes" are knowingly dupes vs just those easily led / manipulated in their leading / misdirecting of parapolitical investigators?
Judge has always seemed very sincere to me and his vehemance over the fact that whatever hit the Pentagon should have been shot down well before it got there seemed a valid enough stance for a level-headed 911 researcher without jumping to conclusions about what actually hit. His assertion that the Pentagon has surface to air missiles on-site that should have shot down the plane seems as valid a starting point as any. I've even heard him comment that someone suggested to him that the plane WAS shot at the last possible moment before striking the building.
But again, the whole synchronicity smells to high heaven; "T Carter's" claims of witnessing the hijackers casing the plane in the months before mirrors actor James Woods' similar claims.
Perhaps folks should at least LISTEN to her tell her own story in the MP3 I provided to use their own aural perceptors as to whether or not she is honest. I'm not saying she is or isn't. I can't tell anymore.
Anyway ... sorry to have swerved this "Alex" topic back to the Pentagon angle.
There were some comments / questions in this thread about AJ that I wanted to address. I'll just browse back thru and see if I can find them again.
SMiles |
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elfis
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Ormond wrote: | | Quote: | | He could sell fear in a fear recession. |
Oh, he was selling fear bigtime in the prosperous 1990's, before the 'dot.com' crash!
I lived in Austin then and there he's been on local radio for years.
Considering the 'peace and plenty', bread and circuses in that very different scenery then, where did Jones come from? I can tell you he just 'hatched' already fully staffed, heavily funded (and syndicated). An 'overnight sensation'.
He plugged into the existing and vast Art Bell market at the time. A ready audience, prepared by Bell. Bell was another supersalesman of fear. |
Hey Ormond,
I've lived in Austin since kindergarten. I first became aware of Alex around 1998 and at that time he was no longer on local radio. As far as I've been able to ascertain, first Alex started his Access TV community television show, THEN he managed to get on local talk radio station KLBJ. But it wasn't long before he left that venue, allegedly due to pressure from advertisers and/or the station being bought by someone. Alex then went Full-Tilt-Boogy with his ACTV show and quickly landed a job with GCN. Up until a few years ago his main sidekick and gopher was Mike Hanson, with whom he infiltrated BoHo Grove - you can read the ghost-written manuscript of Mike Hanson's version of that experience in his book ... Bohemian Grove: Cult of Conspiracy.
http://www.cultofconspiracy.com
I make the point about Mike Hanson being Alex's sidekick for so long because it appears to me from what I've seen and heard via friends of AJ's that once Mike left Alex, THAT's when it seems like AJ's commercial success took-off. Mike was helping Alex produce his weekly ACTV show and working with him on various documentary projects. But as AJ rose to stardom he got more and more interns (paid and volunteer) to work for him until he got to the point where he actually has a sizable paid staff.
Anyway, Alex was off the air in Austin for many years. In fact, a close friend and I were ecstatic to get him "back on FM radio in Austin" in 2002.
You can hear that 2002 radio interview via these links... about 3 minutes into the actual interview Alex recaps his career rise up to that point.
http://www.parapolitics.info/media/alexjones/2002/AlexJonesAndStarchild1.mp3
http://www.parapolitics.info/media/alexjones/2002/AlexJonesAndStarchild2.mp3
http://www.elfis.net/media/STARCHILDwAJ020402.mp3
At that point he was being rebroadcast on the FM dial via one of the local micro FM broadcasts known as Radio Free Austin (not to be confused with Free Radio Austin which was ripped off the air by the FCC and sorta later became KAOS).
The initial moneys for his upstart conspiracy enterprise likely came from his successful dentist father - but probably just enough to keep him afloat until he got into the DVD market a couple years ago.
So it doesn't seem accurate to me to say that ...
| Quote: | | I can tell you he just 'hatched' already fully staffed, heavily funded (and syndicated). An 'overnight sensation'. |
SMiles |
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Hocus Locus
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Lost in anamnesis, cannot forget my way out
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Rump, Sorry I jumped the gun and pedanted on the literal quote you cited instead of pedanting on the point you were making, Judge's planting of another 9/11 Truth herring, and the ambiguity such things bring into our lives. Being hasty is such a hasty business sometimes.
Unlike you and I, some people actually look forward to those things when they appear. For them it's another "That'll show 'em!" card to flick into the deck. Never mind if it doesn't make any sense. To us it's another dreary little passage to explore because someone who otherwise seems to have an excellent command of language -- who should know better -- has let slip an annoying loose end disguised as a knot in the string. Another ambiguity. Why? Because we give a damn (pat pat). Because we can't help it (cue X-Files theme). Because we are pursuing our own agenda (cue Über Alles).
There are modes in human narrative in the context of 'expected response behavior'. There is the speech (take it, leave it or vivisect it behind my back), the witness (judge me but listen), the lecturing professor (listen but pipe up at the end with a question if I've confused you), the bar facing the bench (speak carefully, crystal clear and relevent or I might gavel your ass), and then there is the sermon (I'm empassioned and hasty, but listen, don't interrupt and assume any little inconsistencies are just mistakes, you know my intentions are good).
Jones and Judge sound like sermonizers. The one-way nature of the broadcast medium will eventually turn the most sincere lecturing professor into a sermonizer eventually. Even in the absense of arrogance or agenda, simple lack of feedback will do it; speakers' folibles will go unchallenged, their venues become gridlocked with me-toos who are not semantically analyzing the content, through pointed question or critique, refining the process.
That's why I love this medium, being one to semonize without warning. It keeps me amused, while at the same time the scroll bar and Page Down keys keep others from having to throw things.
If it is not a brilliant insight, the heady rush of something unraveled, the simple relief of being able to relax and just listen and not analytically think, is a powerful conscious and subconscious human motivator. That is because whatever the times or the issues, intelligent analyzers are under stress, the type an attorney feels perhaps as the opening statement is about to begin. Being 'on your toes', that extra 'edge'. Of course if you happen to be staffing a missle silo, that extra edge can be a really good thing.
The sudden appearance of the Surgeon General's Warning didn't 'reform' a single (adult, established) smoker, it just added a little bounce in their step, sunshine to their day, a measure of relief to their increasingly harried existence. It's over. While the claims and quotes and testimony hits the news, they aren't worried that it might be proven that smoking is bad for your health -- any idiot knows that -- they are worried that the price might go up, or Carrie Nation shock troops might storm in and sieze their stash, cut off the supply. Which is an irrational fear, and to be fair, the 'relief' I allude to, an irrational relief. People are real hoots sometimes.
Until 100,000 people march on somewhere with banners that say somthing, it's all "for entertainment purposes only".
I wonder if I've been spending too much time on what the 9/11 Commission did wrong, not enough time on what the Church Committee did right?
___
A conclusion is simply the place where someone got tired of thinking. |
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atm
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3578
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Hmmmm.
What were posters saying about Alex Jones steering clear of the 'Isreali link?'
Well, my pedigree chums, here it is:
| Quote: |
http://www.infowars.net/articles/december2006/071206Haas.htm
Investigative Reporter Breaks Israeli 9/11 Foreknowledge
FBI refused to protect source of Ed Haas in June 2001 when he told them planes would be used to attack New York
Alex Jones & Steve Watson
Infowars.net
Thursday, December 7, 2006
Alex Jones was joined on air this week by investigative reporter Ed Haas to discuss an important story he has broken concerning direct evidence of Israeli prior knowledge of and possible complicity in the 9/11 attacks of 2001.
Haas details in his expose how in October 2000, approximately 11 months prior to September 11, 2001, a former Israeli Defense Force member and veteran of the Yom Kippur War overheard a conversation at the Gomel Chesed Cemetery, located in Newark, NJ., concerning the attacks and spoken in Hebrew between three men.
“The Americans will learn what it is to live with terrorists after the planes hit the twins in September.” Hass's contact said he heard one of the men say. After 11 months of desperately attempting to alert the authorities and being systematically ignored all along the line, the contact watched in horror as the attacks unfolded exactly as he had overheard.
Haas revealed on air that he had been asked by a reader to contact the source, who has asked to remain anonymous for fear of his own safety, as he had in depth information about prior knowledge of the attacks and no one would listen to him.
Haas stated:
"I approached this individual as if his story was BS, you know that's kind of how I had to approach it, is this guy might be a nutcase, let's follow through though and see if his story starts to have merit, and it did. I reached a point where I felt as though this guy has some information based on his documentation and it smells like more cover up to me."
The source also told Haas that one of the men he overheard expressed concerns regarding whether the upcoming presidential election (November 2000) between Bush / Cheney and Gore / Lieberman could impact the plans. Another man, he believed to be the most senior of the three, replied “Don’t worry, we have people in high places and no matter who gets elected, they will take care of everything.”
The source also reported to Haas that he overheard one of the three men say, “The Arabs are so stupid. They don’t even imagine that we are using them.”.
Could this be a reference to the 9/11 hijackers? It certainly fits other evidence that they, or their doubles/namesakes depending on which line you take, were intimately known to US intelligence and were being used as patsies.
Haas has received copies of letters that his contact had received from the FBI after emailing and calling to tell them he had important information to share. A first letter advised the source to contact the Newark FBI division which he did several times with no response. Upon writing to the FBI a second time, a further response informed the source that the FBI would not be able to do anything on his behalf.
On the same day the second letter was received, three months prior to 9/11, two agents from the Newark division visited the source. Without a guarantee of protection he was unwilling to tell them everything he knew. However, he did tell the agents that there would be an attack in New York City and airplanes would be used.
Haas suggests that it is telling that the source was asking for protection, fearing that he had inside information on some form of Israeli intelligence operation, and the FBI was advising him to contact his local cop.
[Local cop? You What?]
The source told Haas the the Newark agents seemed rather annoyed that the higher echelons of the FBI were outright rejecting to receive information and offer protection.
We have previously highlighted how many other divisional branches of the FBI were hindered or prevented from investigating red flags and warnings BEFORE the attacks of 9/11. We have also specifically highlighted the Israeli forewarnings, prior knowledge and possible involvement in 9/11.
We have gone over these issues so many times in the past that we now get accused by newer readers and critics of ignoring them and somehow protecting Israeli intelligence. In truth we were talking about this stuff hours after the attacks took place and for years in the aftermath.
[Now who would they be, Mr Jones? Your planted critics?]
The source's story suggests, as he himself believes, that the real perpetrators of 9/11 may have been a conglomeration of intelligence agencies, involving Mossad. He believes that there may even may a direct conection to the story of the Israeli spy ring and the five Israeli 'tourists' arrested on September 11th 2001 after they were seen in position on nearby rooftops before the planes hit and celebrating thereafter.
[For fuck's sake!!!!]
Even Senator Graham, on the Intelligence committee after 9/11, has stated that there is evidence that suggests the attacks were funded in part at least by a sovereign government. This information has been classified. We also know that the head of Pakistani intelligence, the ISI, wired $100,000 to the lead hijacker before the event.
Haas went on to comment:
"What made it so fascinating was that I decide OK I'm going to start trying to confirm this guy's story, once I confirmed that the [FBI] agents existed. I mean some of this story, if you think about someone making up a story, identifying FBI agents isn't... you know, it's not like when you go into your local police force website and they'll have pictures of all the police officers, you know identity of agents is something that he would have had to go to great lengths to fabricate."
Last week Haas contacted the FBI north division and was able to confirm the identity of Agent Robin Gritz and Agent Andrew Stengel and that these agents had met with his source on June 26th 2001.
The Legal Unit of the FBI then decided that Haas needed to file a Freedom of Information Act request. At this time Haas learned that his enquiries had been elevated to the FBI national press office, indicating that the bureau was well aware of how important the story is.
Hass then contacted Agent Robin (Gritz) Laird personally. Gritz, who has since been promoted to a supervisor position within a counter terrorism unit at FBI headquarters, was already aware of Haas's inquiries and stated, “I’m not allowed to discuss this with you. I would get in trouble.”
Haas has also received also received copies of contact cards that Agents Gritz and Stengel left with the source on June 26, 2001.
Haas is now working on submitting the FOIA request to further corroborate the story. He is also urging his source to go public with his information.
[And further discredit the 'troof' bowel moovemunt?]
"What's interesting is that after the event, after 9/11 nobody at the FBI came back to this guy, nobody came back to him to say 'hey maybe we missed something, can you tell us what you knew?' which in his mind confirms that this thing isn't the way the government told us." Haas said.
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Um, err, so Jones steers clear of the so-called 'Joo's diddit' angle?
I don't thunk zo.
The controlled Ziodemolition of the 'truth' bowel movement Haas begun...
...just as Fintan said it would.
Bitches on the run. 'Truth' in, Truth 'out'.
'Truth' movement = bowel movement.
Ahh, shit!
Anything to declare?
Yah, da Joo's diddit! Da JOOS'S!
FFS!
atm  |
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stallion4
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 692
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: |
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Are you saying that Israel wasn't involved???
_________________
"Someday a real rain will come and wash all this scum off the streets." ~Travis Bickle |
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atm
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3578
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:28 am Post subject: |
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S4
you are MISSING THE POINT.
Thunk abaht it!
Jones is playing the 'Joo' card.
Listen to Fintan's audios.
Otherwise, what on Earth are you on this forum for?
We are The Fake Busters.
Get that through your headphones.
You are falling into The Fake Trap. The Faker's planted quicksand.
Hurry, hurry, don't walk into the Fakes' "JOO'S DIDDIT" PLANTED MINEFIELD (an area of misinformation or disinformation in which psyop explosive misinfo/disinfo-psywar mines have been laid).
Take care, bro
atm  :roll: |
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stallion4
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 692
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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You didn't answer my question. I'll rephrase it; Do you think Israel was involved in the 9/11 attack or not?
And I'll think for myself thank you very much. I don't need Fintan or Alex Jones or anyone else to help me to do that.
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atm
Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3578
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:04 am Post subject: |
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No, I do not think that Isreal was involved in the 9/11 attacks.
Let's see how Haas's FOIA request gets on and whether his source will go public with his information.
atm |
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